Candid Reflections on Broadway Advertising from an Industry Veteran
If you want to have a conversation about the changing landscape of Broadway advertising, there is one person I’d recommend you sit down with: Sandy Block.
Sandy’s resume is impressive: he spent 25 years at the legendary Serino Coyne, leading brand strategy for hit after hit including The Book of Mormon, Hairspray, The Producers, and many more. He went on to cast himself in the highly complex (and quite admirable) role of Broadway producer, supporting shows like the Tony Award-winning 2015 revival of The Color Purple and After Midnight. And if that’s not enough, in 2019 he took on a strategy role at one of the few non-profits on Broadway: the amazing Roundabout Theatre Company. Let’s just say Sandy has seen a lot from many different perspectives.
While his resume is clearly very impressive, what you wouldn’t see on it is his deep love and passion for this industry, which comes across in even the briefest conversations with him. With so much changing in the world around us, I believe the industry needs to hear from folks like Sandy who have a genuine passion for our future.
Sandy and I had breakfast on the books, but I asked him if I could steal the time to interview him instead; he graciously agreed. He’s a warm and curious person who is not one to hold back his opinion which always makes for great conversation.
Damian Bazadona: You have created some of the most iconic advertising for some of the most iconic shows on Broadway. How do you think we can get people excited to come to the theater today? What can Broadway advertising do that it’s currently not?
Sandy Block: I think we have gotten timid.
The Broadway experience is unique, and I think people will always come out for it, as long as we make it clear that it is only happening here. However, sometimes we back away from our message in an attempt to appeal to everyone, and that’s impossible. But the consequence is that we’re not as good at turning people on to a show as we should be. I’d like us to take bigger swings, both with creative and media choices. What’s something cool, something unexpected we can do in this space?
Bazadona: I’ve always been attracted to work created by people who have a real passion for what they’re saying. When they really believe in something, you can’t help but feel inspired by it. And it makes you want to be a part of it.
But on the flip side of that gut feeling is data and insights. Investment in research has become a significantly bigger part of the advertising equation over the years. What’s your take on this trend? More information is better than less information, no?
Block: Well, let’s be honest for a minute: We don’t know what’s going to work. We don’t know! And if we say we do, we’re dreaming. That applies to everyone: general managers, advertisers, directors. We don’t know. But we can only go forward in this business by pretending we do or applying our gut feelings.
In terms of research, I’ve always thought presenting creative online or to a focus group can be a dangerous thing because it’s a kind of false test. You’re asking a group of people to be marketing directors, not consumers. Marketing directors may have some things in common with the target audience, but we are not the same as them. Partially because we see a million shows, mostly for free. We have little in common with people who are choosing how to spend $300.
In the past, I’ve found it most useful to take an honest list of a show’s attributes, from stars to songs to writers to reviews, write them on cards, and have consumers put them in order of importance. Then, if you can, watch them discuss it and debate it like consumers. Suddenly, their job is no longer to come up with the advertising but to give us as advertisers clearer marching orders.
Bazadona: Let’s shift gears from your experience as an advertiser to your time wearing the producer’s hat. When you first started producing, what was most surprising to you?
Block: I was surprised by how, whether your show is doing well or not doing well, all you are thinking about is ticket sales. All the time. It’s everything. Your validation, your business, your flow, all of it. Shows cost so much every single week. You might care about advertising a little bit, but only because that means you have a shot at selling more tickets; it’s not about engagement or a feeling. When will it sell more tickets? I’m sorry, it’s the only thing.
Bazadona: We can have an academic conversation all day on engagement and awareness, but when you’re not wearing the producer’s hat — a business owner’s hat — you run into all kinds of traps. One of the best compliments that I ever got from a client was that I spent her money like it was my own.
Agencies are in the service business. We have to give thought to what the producer is truly asking for.
Block: I agree. And there are ways to do it with authenticity, without it feeling overly sales-y.
I remember shooting testimonials outside of the theater after a show, finding real audience members, regular people, and getting them to talk about the show as if they were speaking to a skeptical friend. They’ll start by saying, “I know you’re gonna like this. Everyone will love it,” and I’d push them a bit, disagree with them, “Oh, come on! No show is for everybody. What are you talking about?”
Suddenly, they’re saying, “No, no, young people will like this show for X reason, older people will like it because of Y,” and there’s your sound bite.
Bazadona: How do you think the dynamics of the industry have changed for advertising agencies? The pricing model, the cost structures, and all these different elements seem to have become far more complex. Why do you think it’s shaken out that way?
Block: Well, it’s pretty common that agencies are no longer led by “the crazy creatives” who walk in with an idea and don’t want to hear anything else. However, I still think that data and strategy are a means to an end, not the end itself. And I don’t know that I always see that in practice.
As far as pricing is concerned, we’ve told the public that the best shows cost a fortune. They’ve said, “OK, but I’m only going to go a couple times a year.”
Bazadona: Fair. I think the high-risk economics are driving the machine now and while a certain amount of money is there to be lost, it’s hard to swallow a huge financial blow. This inevitably, rightly or wrongly, gives data and insights a bigger seat at the table.
Now let’s consider that consumer media habits have changed significantly — look no further than the proliferation of the countless streaming media platforms now available well beyond Netflix. Do you think Broadway advertising has kept pace with changing consumer behavior? Are we effectively meeting patrons where they are?
Block: Online is vital, but it’s always hungry. Stuff evaporates as fast as we can create it. Onto the next. So it makes us say 25 different things every month just to feed the beast. I’m a fan of more discipline in digital but we’re petrified of not being fresh. It is petrifying.
The challenges seem more profound than they were pre-pandemic. But our advertising doesn’t look or feel very different — both our media plans and our creative. If what we’re doing isn’t delivering great results, why not take bigger risks with bigger ideas? It can be scary but also exciting. And a lot of shows’ wraps now are pretty scary already.
Bazadona: Let’s go longer term for a moment and look ahead to the next generation of producers. If they were to ask you what you’re most optimistic about in this industry, what would you say to them?
Block: There’s always a show that shouldn’t break through, and it does. I think shows like these keep our cynicism in check. Original ideas like Hamilton — a multicultural rap musical about the one founding father that nobody remembers — turn out to click. And it gives the marketplace something that’s only on Broadway, a new experience they can only get here.
Bazadona: I agree. There’s a part of the unpredictability that makes coming to work every day interesting!
Let’s build on this idea of new shows breaking through. What’s your take on the range of shows being produced on Broadway today? Is it living up to the “only on Broadway” promise?
Block: I think a lot of shows are — but we’re hesitant to highlight their unique qualities, for fear that some folks will be turned off. But some will be turned on, and that’s our job. We say, “This is the event of the season,” but we won’t really risk telling you what it is. And three other shows just said that, too. Look at critics’ quotes. Does a headline that says “Exhilarating!” really do anything for anyone?
Back in my agency days, we tried to live by the rule that a show’s advertising should be as entertaining as the show.
Bazadona: What’s a piece of advice you’d give to young producers trying to grow their career in this business?
Block: While it’s hard to give bad news, it’s really, really important. If we’re all pretending things are going well, and they’re not, that’s a recipe for disaster. Who’s stepping in? So, when I’m on the producing side, I always try to start a relationship by saying, “There’s nothing you folks can do that we didn’t agree to. If something bombs, we’re all responsible. But if it didn’t work, it’s super important that we talk about it. No sugarcoating.”
And that can be really difficult for young professionals, including the ones at an agency, who feel compelled to defend their work, and their decisions. But if you’re telling me something worked when it didn’t, there’s going to be distrust.
And this should go for everybody working on your business because they’re going to say what you want to hear, which is often at odds with what you need to hear!
Bazadona: And how do you think an agency can build or rebuild that trust with the producer?
Block: A show’s cost is tied to spending, naturally, and often it is an agency’s job to convince a producer that spending will be good for the show. So establishing that trust can be a real challenge.
You need to have everybody feeling confident, which comes from a lack of fear. You can’t feel confident if you’re afraid. Those are opposites.
Bazadona: Back to the hypothetical next generation of producers. What would you tell them about why Broadway is such an incredible business to work in? I’ve always loved the process of watching the show come into existence. You catch a workshop and you meet the people involved and you watch their whole lives change. It’s very intimate. That’s what makes the industry remarkably exciting to me, but what about you?
Block: A quick story. I remember a particularly rough day I had when teaching a class a few years back. I was describing how bad my day was, and a student asked, “So, why do you still do this?”
I told the class to raise their hand if they remembered the first movie they were taken to as a kid. A couple of hands went up. Then, I asked them to raise their hand if they remembered the first Broadway show they attended. Every hand in the room went up. That’s why.
And, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to get a bit negative here. I don’t think we cherish that enough anymore. I think we try to get more money out of people before we try to build our relationships with them. I mean, right now, we keep being surprised that “lesser” shows die so fast. Why aren’t people coming more? Because we told them not to, through pricing. We can’t really be surprised at them for that. And we can’t have it both ways. But we can be bolder.
We can also treat them better. Standing on a line that wraps around the block at 7:50 — with security folks yelling, “All bags open!” — when you’re holding a pair of tickets that cost $700 is absurd. If we’re charging a king’s ransom, we should be treating them like kings.
But if you put something really unique out there and the right people are in the room together and they’re committed to their relationships, there’s a strange kind of magic that will draw an audience in. They’ll put up with all the obstacles we put in their way.
Bazadona: Well said, my friend. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me today, Sandy. As always, I appreciate your insight and honesty!
